Legislature(2015 - 2016)CAPITOL 120

03/27/2015 01:00 PM House JUDICIARY

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ HB 106 UNIFORM INTER.CHILD SUPPORT;PARENTAGE TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
+= HB 75 MUNI REG OF MARIJUANA; LOCAL ELECTION TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 75(JUD) Out of Committee
          HB 106-UNIFORM INTER.CHILD SUPPORT;PARENTAGE                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:13:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX announced that the  final order of business would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL  NO. 106, "An  Act relating to the  Uniform Interstate                                                               
Family Support  Act, including jurisdiction  by tribunals  of the                                                               
state,  registration and  proceedings related  to support  orders                                                               
from  other  state  tribunals, foreign  support  orders,  foreign                                                               
tribunals,  and certain  persons residing  in foreign  countries;                                                               
relating to determination of parentage  of a child; and providing                                                               
for  an   effective  date."  [Before   the  committee   was  CSHB
106(STA).]                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:14:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CAROL BEECHER,  Deputy Director, Anchorage Central  Office, Child                                                               
Support  Division,  Department  of Revenue,  advised  the  Alaska                                                               
Child Support  Services Division  is authorized under  Title IV-D                                                               
of  the Social  Security  Act and  that the  agency  has been  in                                                               
operation since 1976.  The  mission of the child support division                                                               
is to  collect and disburse  child support of which  it collected                                                               
approximately $112 million in FY14,  and approximately 90 percent                                                               
went directly to  families for support and  10 percent reimbursed                                                               
the  state and  federal government  for public  assistance.   The                                                               
case  load   currently  is  approximately  49,000   cases.    She                                                               
explained that the Uniform Interstate  Family Support Act (UIFSA)                                                               
was  drafted  by  the  Uniform  Law  Commissioners  and  provides                                                               
universal  and  uniform  rules  for  the  enforcement  of  family                                                               
support  orders  between  states.    Alaska  passed  the  Uniform                                                               
Interstate  Family Support  Act in  1996 and  by 1998  all United                                                               
States jurisdictions had  passed UIFSA into law.   She opined the                                                               
rationale for amending UIFSA is  that it was clear some revisions                                                               
were  required to  clarify jurisdictional  and controlling  order                                                               
issues.   The Act was  amended by  the Uniform Law  Commission in                                                               
2001, but  enactment was not  required by  the states.   In 2007,                                                               
the  United States  signed  The Hague  Convention  Treaty on  the                                                               
International  Recovery  of  Child  Support and  Other  Forms  of                                                               
Family  Maintenance (Convention).   She  advised this  Convention                                                               
contains  numerous provisions  that establish  uniform procedures                                                               
for processing international child support cases.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:16:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BEECHER advised  that  in 2008  the  Uniform Law  Commission                                                               
amended UIFSA to incorporate changes  required by the Convention.                                                               
In 2010 the  United States Senate gave its advice  and consent to                                                               
the treaty.   In September  2014, Public Law  113-183, Preventing                                                               
Sex Trafficking  and Strengthening  Families Act was  signed into                                                               
law.   This  act requires  that all  United States  jurisdictions                                                               
enact  UIFSA  2008  in  their  next  legislative  session.    For                                                               
example, she noted, for Alaska the date is July 1, 2015.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:17:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LEDOUX asked  if there  were  states that  were not  doing                                                               
anything.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BEECHER  responded  that currently  all  states  are  either                                                               
enacting, or it is in their legislature, or it is being drafted.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:17:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BEECHER continued  her  presentation and  stated  that as  a                                                               
condition of  the federal financial  participation, which  is $19                                                               
million for Alaska, each state  child support agency must have an                                                               
approved state  plan which meets  all federal requirements.   The                                                               
Federal Office of Child Support  Enforcement determines whether a                                                               
state plan is approved and it  is requiring states to adopt UIFSA                                                               
2008 verbatim.   The CS  version of HB  106 is because  Version A                                                               
went  before the  Office of  Child Support  Enforcement and  they                                                               
prepared  amendments so  that the  bill would  be verbatim.   She                                                               
advised this was also reviewed  by Legislative Legal and Research                                                               
Services  and  the Department  of  Revenue's  legal staff.    She                                                               
opined that this  bill will amend UIFSA and  that most amendments                                                               
contain  clean  up  language and  clarifying  definitions.    She                                                               
pointed out  that the  primary change  is the  addition of  a new                                                               
section, Article 7A. [Support  Proceedings under Convention] Sec.                                                               
96, [AS  25.25 is  amended by  adding a  new section.],  page 31.                                                               
She  advised  that  this  new  section  provides  guidelines  and                                                               
procedures  for the  registration, recognition,  enforcement, and                                                               
modification of  foreign support  orders from countries  that are                                                               
parties to  the Convention.   To date,  33 countries  have signed                                                               
onto the Convention.  Passage of  this bill will provide a better                                                               
opportunity for  Alaska's children to receive  child support from                                                               
parents that  live in a foreign  country.  She noted  that Alaska                                                               
already enforces  foreign support cases when  the parent provides                                                               
sufficient documentation,  and that  there are  processes similar                                                               
to the  way the agency  currently enforces between states.   But,                                                               
she  further noted,  this  tends to  be a  one-way  street.   The                                                               
agency enforces foreign order orders  but many countries will not                                                               
enforce  United States'  orders  outside of  a treaty  agreement.                                                               
The new section  of UIFSA will not go in  effect until the treaty                                                               
is ratified.   Until then states will continue  to enforce orders                                                               
in the same way it currently enforces.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:20:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
STACY  STEINBERG,  Chief  Assistant Attorney  General,  Statewide                                                               
Section  Supervisor,  Collections   and  Support  Section,  Civil                                                               
Division, pointed out that there are  106 section in the bill and                                                               
offered an overview  sectional analysis.  She  described the meat                                                               
of  the bill  as Sec.  96, which  is a  new article  dealing with                                                               
foreign  support  orders  from  the Convention  countries.    She                                                               
reiterated Ms. Beecher  in that current law  already provides for                                                               
Alaska to enforce foreign orders and  this needs to become a two-                                                               
way street for  the other countries to enforce our  orders.  Sec.                                                               
96, adds 13 new statutes  that deal with processing requests from                                                               
other  countries.    Basically,  she explained,  it  mirrors  the                                                               
current  process  in   Article  VI,  which  is   how  orders  are                                                               
registered now.   There are a  few differences on the  time frame                                                               
for objecting to  the registration.  She referred to  Sec. 20, AS                                                               
25.25.104  [Application of  this chapter  to resident  of foreign                                                               
country and  foreign support proceedings] and  stated it includes                                                               
the  2008  changes.   There  will  also  be  a new  section,  she                                                               
explained, that  deals with the  procedure to register  a foreign                                                               
support  order  and  designation  whether  using  Article  VI  or                                                               
Article  VII processes,  in Sec.  95 of  the bill.   Another  new                                                               
statute,  AS 25.25.402,  deals with  parentage  and was  recently                                                               
moved  from what  was formerly  .701, so  only Article  VII deals                                                               
with the  foreign support orders.   She offered that there  are a                                                               
host of  other changes directly  related to the new  Article VII,                                                               
of which  many deal with definitions.   Under the act  there is a                                                               
legal fiction that  a foreign country can be a  "state," which is                                                               
being  deleted so  that  a  foreign country  is  truly a  foreign                                                               
country.  She  remarked that it results in  many statute changes,                                                               
including Secs.  1-16, as  there are new  definitions.   She said                                                               
she determined there are 21 statutes  that will be amended to add                                                               
either foreign  country, or foreign  tribunal, or  define outside                                                               
the state,  which results in  23 new sections  of the bill.   She                                                               
related there  is clean up language  fixing cross-references, and                                                               
providing for  notice by electronic  mail.  She opined  there are                                                               
many changes but the meat of it is in Sec. 96.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:24:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  STEINBERG continued  her analysis  in that  by adopting  the                                                               
2008  version, the  committee would  be in  essence adopting  the                                                               
2001 changes by  the Uniform Law Commission.   She reiterated Ms.                                                               
Beecher in  that the  state is currently  under the  1996 version                                                               
because  that is  what the  federal government  has mandated  for                                                               
funding, and Alaska  is required to update the 2001  changes.  In                                                               
the statute,  she remarked  what is related  to the  2001 changes                                                               
and in essence,  she related, are clarifying changes  to the laws                                                               
already on  the books.  In  2001, the state had  been using UIFSA                                                               
for  approximately 15  years and  the  drafters realized  certain                                                               
areas needed  to be "tweaked," she  opined.  As part  of the 2001                                                               
changes there will  be 3 new statutes, in that  there is a change                                                               
in Sec. 40, AS 25.25.280 which  deals with the application of the                                                               
act   to  a   non-resident  subject   to  the   state's  personal                                                               
jurisdiction.    Another new  statute,  AS  25.25.615 deals  with                                                               
jurisdiction  to  modify  a  child support  order  of  a  foreign                                                               
country,  if that  foreign country  either lacks  jurisdiction or                                                               
refuses jurisdiction  to modify in  Sec. 95.  AS  25.25.281 deals                                                               
with spousal support in that  a state can modify spousal support.                                                               
When is also in Sec. 40, of the  bill and is not a new section as                                                               
these provision  are already  in current  law in  AS 25.25.205(f)                                                               
and  .206(C).    She  explained that  the  drafter  pulled  those                                                               
sections out and put them in  their own stand alone section.  For                                                               
example, the  court that  sets spousal  support will  always have                                                               
jurisdiction over spousal support and  is the only court that can                                                               
modify it, which  is different from the rules  on modifying child                                                               
support.  She pointed out that  21 sections of the bill deal with                                                               
more  clarifying  amendments,  for  example,  what  court  should                                                               
determine  the  controlling  order.   The  clarifying  amendments                                                               
touch  29 different  statutes and  there are  51 sections  in the                                                               
bill that deal with that, she explained.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:28:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  STEINBERG  responded  to  Chair  LeDoux  that  the  bill  is                                                               
something she and Ms. Beecher work  with everyday and do not find                                                               
it confusing.   She noted  it is  an excellent vehicle  for child                                                               
support  as when  it  was  enacted in  1996,  it was  problematic                                                               
dealing  with enforcing  child support  orders through  different                                                               
states.   Under this  uniform law  enacted in  1996, it  made the                                                               
process much  more efficient with  the states  communicating with                                                               
the same  laws.  She  remarked that  this bill expands  it beyond                                                               
just the  states in  taking it  to a more  global level  with the                                                               
main  intent that  children do  get support  no matter  where the                                                               
parent resides.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:29:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX  stated that she  sees the  good intent of  the bill                                                               
but  it bothers  her somewhat  that if  the legislature  does not                                                               
pass this bill verbatim that "it's no good."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. STEINBERG  responded that is  her understanding as  they have                                                               
worked  closely  with  the  Federal   Office  of  Child  Support.                                                               
Congress changed the law that  applies to child support agencies,                                                               
and basically, in  that law, changed the language  to the states'                                                               
requirement to adopt from UIFSA 1996  to UIFSA 2008.  She advised                                                               
she has  been contact  with the Federal  Office of  Child Support                                                               
and it  has interpreted  it to  mean that  each state  must adopt                                                               
this in its  next legislative session in order to  continue to be                                                               
eligible.  She  explained that as part of its  funding, the state                                                               
must  provide  a  state  plan  and the  state  plan  must  be  in                                                               
compliance in order to continue to receive funding.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LEDOUX expressed  that she  is uncomfortable  to have  the                                                               
federal government  say "you  have to adopt  this in  exactly the                                                               
form we want it in, or it's  no good."  Within most uniform rules                                                               
there  are differences  between Alaska  and California  and Iowa,                                                               
even  though  they   may  be  small  differences,   and  are  all                                                               
substantially  the same.   She  asked that  an attorney  from the                                                               
federal government who deals with  child support and this statute                                                               
attend the next meeting.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:31:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  STEINBERG  replied  that   in  previous  committee  hearings                                                               
someone  from  the  Federal  Office   of  Child  Support  testify                                                               
regarding the verbatim requirement  and how that affects funding.                                                               
Also  available   will  be  Ms.   Lindsay  Beaver,   Uniform  Law                                                               
Commission, to explain the uniform  laws.  Part of the reasoning,                                                               
she remarked, regarding uniformity  amongst the states is related                                                               
to  a uniform  processes and  mentioned  that a  few tweaks  were                                                               
allowed as  "we call  it the bracketed  language."   For example,                                                               
not  every  state calls  their  child  support agency  the  Child                                                               
Support Services  Agency, but  the actual  substance of  the bill                                                               
cannot be changed.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LEDOUX asked  whether the  foreign countries  are adopting                                                               
something that is absolutely identical to the bill.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  STEINBERG answered  that the  foreign countries  have signed                                                               
the Convention,  and as  part of the  Convention or  treaty, they                                                               
have to agree  to do certain things.  The  Convention is outlined                                                               
as  an exhibit  to the  committee's packet,  which is  similar to                                                               
Article VII  regarding documents  that must  be provided  and due                                                               
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:33:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   CLAMAN  surmised   that  the   whole  topic   of                                                               
collecting child  support internationally  became the  subject of                                                               
The Hague Convention Treaty that  basically said if both sides of                                                               
the countries  sign onto the  treaty that both sides  can collect                                                               
in each other's country.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. STEINBERG  responded "That is  essentially correct,"  in that                                                               
prior  to  The  Hague  Convention the  Federal  Office  of  Child                                                               
Support would  contract with different countries  with Bi-Lateral                                                               
Treaties  or  Reciprocating  Agreements with  specific  countries                                                               
like Canada and  the Canadian Provinces.  The problem  is that it                                                               
is very time  consuming and each treaty  had different provisions                                                               
on the forms.  She described  that currently there is a "new age"                                                               
approach  where   instead  of  trying  to   negotiate  with  each                                                               
individual  country  that the  countries  come  together and  all                                                               
agree to the same set of forms and processes.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:34:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN confirmed  that The  Hague Convention  was                                                               
the means  as opposed to the  United States making one  deal with                                                               
Canada and another  with Mexico.  The countries could  sign on to                                                               
The Hague Convention, with the  United State Senate, and that all                                                               
countries refer  to The  Hague Convention as  a means  of dealing                                                               
with this.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. STEINBERG responded  in the affirmative and said  it makes it                                                               
more  efficient.   She  noted  that  part  of  the reason  it  is                                                               
critical for each  state to adopt this language  verbatim is that                                                               
this  language  is needed  to  implement  the provisions  of  the                                                               
Convention because all of the  states enforce child support.  The                                                               
federal  government directly  does not  address it  through their                                                               
federal courts.   In order for the United States  to do the final                                                               
ratification process  the United States  must be prepared  to say                                                               
it  can  do   all  the  steps  required   under  the  Convention.                                                               
Basically  it does  not allow  another country  to come  into the                                                               
United States  - it  allows that the  United States  will provide                                                               
services to them and will  enforce their order, and likewise will                                                               
send a foreign  order to the Polish central  authority to enforce                                                               
the United States'  child support against one  of their citizens.                                                               
Another  provision is  that even  though the  United States  does                                                               
some  enforcement  of  foreign   countries  because  law  already                                                               
provides for  it, it  makes it better  due to  translation costs,                                                               
which can  be very  expensive.   Some of  the provisions  will be                                                               
very  helpful  just  in  assisting  the  Child  Support  Services                                                               
Division with its enforcement.   She noted that the Child Support                                                               
Services  Division   had  to  pay  $1,500   for  three  different                                                               
translations in order to register  an order in Alaska and enforce                                                               
it.    Under  Article  VII,  if  it  is  one  of  the  Convention                                                               
countries,  it reads  that the  country  must provide  a copy  in                                                               
their native language and a certified translation in English.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:37:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX asked  why Child Support Services  Division pays for                                                               
the cost  of translation  currently, as  normally if  a plaintiff                                                               
presents  an   order  to  the   court  the  plaintiff   pays  the                                                               
translating fee.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  STEINBERG responded  that  Child  Support Services  Division                                                               
provides services to parents and  is required to enforce an order                                                               
for the parent which means the  order must be registered in court                                                               
before  enforcing  it.    Child   Support  Services  Division  is                                                               
required  to obtain  the translation  so it  can be  enforced for                                                               
that parent.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  STEINBERG, in  response  to Chair  LeDoux,  stated that  the                                                               
statute  does not  require that  the state  pay for  the cost  of                                                               
translating,  but it  is part  of  registering an  order and  the                                                               
parties must understand what it says.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:38:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LEDOUX said  that Child  Support  Services Division  could                                                               
require the  parent to  have the order  translated, if  it wanted                                                               
to.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:39:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. BEECHER  responded that Chair  LeDoux is correct in  that the                                                               
agency could require the parent  to pay, but the custodial parent                                                               
is requesting  services so she/he  can receive child  support and                                                               
the expense  is so high  they cannot  afford it, the  agency does                                                               
view it as a service it provides.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LEDOUX quiered  if there  was  a means  test to  determine                                                               
whether a custodial parent can use the agency's services.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. BEECHER responded "There is not."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LEDOUX  assessed that  a  custodial  parent could  have  a                                                               
$200,000  income   and  the  state   would  still  pay   for  the                                                               
translation services.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. BEECHER answered that it is possible.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:39:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN pointed out  that the federal government is                                                               
telling the  states they all  have to adopt the  same provisions.                                                               
He said he is sensitive to  government overreach but this is more                                                               
on  an international  level.   He opined  that it  would be  more                                                               
difficult  if every  state took  a  different path  in its  child                                                               
support rules.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. BEECHER answered in the affirmative.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:41:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN  asked whether it  is part of  the scenario                                                               
today,  without   adopting  this  legislation,  that   there  are                                                               
countries  that come  to Alaska  and collect  child support  from                                                               
Alaska  residents, but  because Alaska  has not  adopted statutes                                                               
that would allow enforcement of  The Hague Convention that Alaska                                                               
cannot go to  some countries and collect child  support from that                                                               
country.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. BEECHER offered  that the scenario is possible,  but she does                                                               
not  have  a  specific  example.   Due  to  the  fact  that  many                                                               
countries  will not  collect without  a treaty  provision, it  is                                                               
possible they will not collect for Alaska.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:42:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN  opined that Poland  is a country  in which                                                               
it can  collect in Alaska today,  but because the statute  is not                                                               
in line  with The Hague  Convention, Poland does  not necessarily                                                               
enforce Alaska's orders.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. BEECHER offered to provide  more specifics on that issue, but                                                               
in a  general sense the situation  is that the United  States has                                                               
the structure,  including Alaska,  for collecting  child support.                                                               
She noted that even in the  area of enforcement with other states                                                               
there are  disagreements on what can  be collected and how  to go                                                               
about  it.   She assessed  that  the same  situation occurs  when                                                               
Child  Support Services  Division attempts  to enforce  a support                                                               
order to another country.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:43:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX  questioned that  if the  United States  is allowing                                                               
another  country to  collect  and use  Alaska  courts to  collect                                                               
child support,  and the other  country is not  enforcing Alaska's                                                               
child support orders, "why not play hard ball with them."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BEECHER  responded that  as  a  general rule  Child  Support                                                               
Services Division  is required to provide  child support services                                                               
to   people  who   provide  the   agency  with   the  appropriate                                                               
documentation to  open a child  support [case].  The  agency does                                                               
not view it  from the perspective of Alaska and  the country, but                                                               
rather as one person who needs  the child support to be collected                                                               
for them.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX questioned  whether that would be  the person living                                                               
in the other country collecting from an Alaskan citizen.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BEECHER answered  that it  could be  either way  wherein the                                                               
custodial parent  lives in Alaska  and the agency reaches  out to                                                               
the other  country to  collect from  the non-custodial  parent in                                                               
another country,  or the custodial  parent could live  in another                                                               
country and contact Alaska to collect for it.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:44:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX expressed  her concern that Alaskan  courts are used                                                               
to collect money  for Alaskan citizens which would  go to another                                                               
country, while the other country  was not honoring Alaska's child                                                               
support orders.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. BEECHER agreed that the  scenario could occur.  She clarified                                                               
that Alaska is an administrative state  so most of the "orders we                                                               
do are administratively administered."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX asked Ms. Beecher to explain her statement.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. BEECHER  explained that the  agency has the authority  to set                                                               
up cases and  enforce them unless they are set  up in the courts.                                                               
She further explained that someone  could go to divorce court and                                                               
as part of that proceeding child  support was set, and the agency                                                               
could enforce it for the courts, but set it up in court.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX  questioned that in  a child support  proceeding, if                                                               
the custodial parent  lives in Alaska wouldn't  the parent simply                                                               
use Alaska  courts to  obtain another child  support order.   She                                                               
further  questioned  why  the  agency  would  enforce  the  child                                                               
support  order from  Poland,  or  Brazil, or  Cuba,  in that  why                                                               
wouldn't the parent just have one from here.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:46:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  STEINBERG  answered  that  statute  reads  if  there  is  no                                                               
existing  child support  order,  the  court will  set  one.   She                                                               
further  answered that  if  there is  already  an existing  child                                                               
support order  Child Support Services  Division will  enforce it.                                                               
Unless  there is  something  wrong with  the  foreign order,  the                                                               
order will  be enforced and not  put another order on  top of it,                                                               
she said.   It goes  against the  whole principle of  the uniform                                                               
act  which reads  "there  should be  one order  in  time for  the                                                               
child," so  it is clear.   She explained there are  rules set out                                                               
in the act of when another jurisdiction can modify that order.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX  asked how it  works if  a child support  order from                                                               
another jurisdiction is more generous  than a child support order                                                               
from Alaska.   Different countries, different  cultures, may have                                                               
different  views  of  divorce,  and  the  obligation  to  support                                                               
children, she pointed out.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. STEINBERG replied  that under the current  process Alaska has                                                               
that problem within other states.   She explained that each state                                                               
is required  to have  their own set  of child  support guidelines                                                               
and the requirement  is that they have to be  numeric and have to                                                               
be considered  on an economic  basis.   She said it  is permitted                                                               
under the  current system so  if Child Support  Services Division                                                               
has the  child support  order it  will enforce  it and  often the                                                               
order is in  different amounts.  That order is  enforced until it                                                               
is modified  and there  are a set  of rules as  to what  point in                                                               
time another state can modify an order.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:49:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER requested clarification  in that the treaty                                                               
is not ratified until the states comply with the bill.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. BEECHER replied "That is correct."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:49:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER  said he found  it novel as instead  of the                                                               
United  States  Senate  voting  to ratify  or  not  ratify,  they                                                               
evidentially changed the  law to say that all  states must comply                                                               
in order for  it to work.   He described the bill  in the context                                                               
of a threat that "if you don't do  this we are going to take your                                                               
money away,"  and referred to  comments by the Department  of Law                                                               
that  the bill  is  for  Alaska's benefit  because  it had  input                                                               
through its uniform commissioners.   He opined that Alaskans have                                                               
more access  to Senators Murkowski  and Sullivan than they  do to                                                               
the  Uniform  Law Commissioners.    He  described  it as  an  odd                                                               
process  put upon  Alaska by  the United  States Congress  and it                                                               
appears  heavy handed  and  also impossible  in  that all  states                                                               
would pass the legislation verbatim.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BEECHER  responded that  this  is  an unprecedented  way  of                                                               
dealing  with what  is essentially  a treaty.   She  explained it                                                               
could be interpreted as being  much more beneficial to the states                                                               
and  rather   anti-federalist  because  it  puts   the  vote  for                                                               
ratification in the states' hands  by way of requiring each child                                                               
support agency to adopt the  amendments to the Uniform Interstate                                                               
Family Support  Act.  The  Uniform Interstate Family  Support Act                                                               
was drafted  by the Uniform  Law Commission  but it was  based on                                                               
input from  all of the  various states.   The language  itself is                                                               
the vehicle  of child support  agencies across the  United States                                                               
that have  worked together  to figure out  ways to  enforce child                                                               
support across the  line.  Rather than having  language that came                                                               
down from  a signed treaty  from the federal  government, written                                                               
by the  federal government, telling  states they must  enforce it                                                               
and  this is  the  language.   Instead,  she  noted, the  federal                                                               
government chose  to use  the uniform act  that was  working well                                                               
between  the  states  and  has   been  an  excellent  vehicle  in                                                               
enforcing interstate child support orders.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER said  he found it unsettling  as it appears                                                               
to be an administrative act that  Alaska is being told to "rubber                                                               
stamp" this,  and trust us.   It  comes from the  federal system,                                                               
and everyone has  a different evaluation but 18  trillion in debt                                                               
and climbing ...                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:53:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX asked  if Congress will ratify  this Convention once                                                               
the  states  have  adopted  the  bill,  or  is  the  ratification                                                               
automatic after the states have adopted the bill.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. STEINBERG  responded that President  Barack Obama  signed the                                                               
treaty,  then the  treaty goes  through the  ratification process                                                               
and noted  that the Senate  already gave its advice  and consent.                                                               
The next step is that  all states adopt the implementing language                                                               
for the  Convention because the  United States  has to say  it is                                                               
going to do these  things, and the things it agrees  to do are in                                                               
the bill.   After all 50 states have adopted  the legislation, it                                                               
goes  back  to  the  President   Obama  to  officially  sign  the                                                               
Instruments  of Ratification  that  are then  deposited with  the                                                               
Kingdom  of  the Netherlands.    Normally  with  a treaty  it  is                                                               
ratified by the United States Senate  and it gives its advice and                                                               
consent.   This is a different  approach in that the  states have                                                               
the implementing language so basically  the United States can say                                                               
it has  all of the  procedures in  place to enforce  "your" child                                                               
support  orders.   She reiterated  Ms. Beecher  in that  from the                                                               
child  support perspective  it is  seen as  a good  thing because                                                               
child  support agencies  had input,  and state  law commissioners                                                               
drafted the changes specifically.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:55:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  STEINBERG  responded  to Representative  Gruenberg  that  if                                                               
Alaska is going  to set a divorce and the  father lives in Poland                                                               
and has never  been to Alaska, Alaska will  not have jurisdiction                                                               
to set  a child  support order  over him.   Alaska does  not have                                                               
personal jurisdiction in that situation  so the mother could come                                                               
to Child  Support Services Division  and ask for  its assistance.                                                               
Child  Support  Services  Division  would  then  ask  the  Poland                                                               
authorities to set a child support order for the mother.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX assessed that even the  existence of the child is an                                                               
action as to  the conception of the child being  an action of the                                                               
person  in Poland.   That  action, having  impregnated the  woman                                                               
living  in Alaska,  would it  not  be enough  to confer  personal                                                               
jurisdiction.   In  many cases,  personal jurisdiction  meant the                                                               
person had  to be there in  order to confer, and  then the courts                                                               
expanded that  with "minimum  contacts."   She asked  whether the                                                               
existence  of the  child  in  Alaska would  be  enough to  confer                                                               
minimum contacts according to Alaska laws.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:59:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. STEINBERG  related that  the mere existence  of the  child in                                                               
Alaska would  not be  sufficient minimum  contacts.   Alaska does                                                               
have strong "long arm" provisions when  a person is not in Alaska                                                               
setting  up  the  fictions  as  minimum  contacts.    Under  this                                                               
scenario if  the father has  never been to Alaska,  Alaska courts                                                               
do  not  have personal  jurisdiction.    Alaska has  due  process                                                               
standards  and  Poland  could  look   at  the  Alaska  order  and                                                               
determine  that the  Polish  citizen was  not  given notice,  and                                                               
Alaska does not  have jurisdiction over him so  would not enforce                                                               
the order,                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:00:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  opined it  would not make  a difference                                                               
if there was notice, as notice  does not confer jurisdiction.  He                                                               
pointed out  that within  the Alaska Civil  Code of  Procedure an                                                               
article    that   deals    with   jurisdiction    in   Jonz    v.                                                             
Garrett/AireSearch  Corp., 490  P.2d  1197  (Alaska 1971),  which                                                             
basically says the  same as the California long  arm statute, and                                                               
if  there is  jurisdiction under  the United  States Constitution                                                               
there is jurisdiction  in Alaska.  Under child  custody it's more                                                               
of an  in rem  situation and if  the child is  in Alaska  for six                                                               
months there is  jurisdiction even if the other parent  is not in                                                               
Alaska.   He advised support works  like this and it  is somewhat                                                               
antiquated                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:01:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN  asked  what  exactly  the  United  States                                                               
Senate did when it considered the  bill.  He further asked how it                                                               
can take  up the bill for  consideration but not give  advice and                                                               
consent and somehow do something  "wrung off."  He requested more                                                               
information about exactly  what the United States  Senate did and                                                               
how it  fits in.   The legislation is dealing  with international                                                               
situations and the  notion that every state "gets" to  do its own                                                               
thing in the international context  is appealing from the state's                                                               
power, but  is not consistent  with the  notion that "we  are one                                                               
nation and we work with other nations."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BEECHER asked  whether Representative  Claman was  referring                                                               
specifically to  the United States  Senate advice and  consent to                                                               
the treaty.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN  said it appears  the United  States Senate                                                               
took   some  action   in  2010,   but  it   was  different   from                                                               
ratification.   He stated  there was  a vote  in the  Senate that                                                               
approved it, but  it is more complicated than  simply saying here                                                               
is the treaty, it was approved  and given advice and consent.  He                                                               
offered that  it did something less  than that and would  like to                                                               
understand what it did.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:03:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LYNN   requested  a  simplistic  answer   to  his                                                               
question of  what would happen  if this  bill failed to  pass the                                                               
Alaska legislature.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BEECHER offered  that the  Alaska Child  Support program  is                                                               
required to  have an approved state  plan and it must  be in line                                                               
with federal requirements.  Public  Law 113-183 mandated that all                                                               
states  adopt UIFSA  2008 by  the  end of  its first  legislative                                                               
session.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BEECHER responded  to Representative  Lynn  that Public  Law                                                               
113-183 was  passed by the  United States Congress and  signed by                                                               
President  Obama on  September 29,  2014.   The consequences  are                                                               
that Alaska would  not be eligible for the 66  percent match, and                                                               
it  would also  follow into  the Temporary  Assistance for  Needy                                                               
Families  (TANF) block  grant which  is at  $45 million  that the                                                               
state  receives.   She  explained  that  would  also be  at  risk                                                               
because  Alaska is  required to  have an  approved child  support                                                               
agency  in  order  to  receive  the grant  funds.    The  federal                                                               
government told the  agency that Alaska funds are at  risk and it                                                               
is mandated to  follow the law in order to  be eligible for those                                                               
funds.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:04:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX  questioned whether the  treaty becomes law  if only                                                               
49 states  pass the legislation, or  can Alaska hold it  up if it                                                               
so chose.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. BEECHER  answered it is  the agency's understanding  that all                                                               
United States  jurisdictions must pass  UIFSA 2008 to  ratify the                                                               
treaty.  Essentially, she noted,  the treaty would not pass until                                                               
Alaska conceded to that vote.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX advised  she is holding the bill  over and requested                                                               
that  a federal  attorney experienced  in UIFSA  attend the  next                                                               
meeting.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG requested  that a  uniform commissioner                                                               
also attend the next meeting.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
[HB 106 was held over.]                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:05:58 PM                                                                                                                    

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
CSHB106(STA) Brief Synopsis 032615.pdf HJUD 3/27/2015 1:00:00 PM
HB 106
HB106 Fiscal Note-0897-DOR-CSS-2-6-15.pdf HJUD 3/27/2015 1:00:00 PM
HB 106
HB106 Fiscal Note-JUD.pdf HJUD 3/27/2015 1:00:00 PM
HB 106
HB106 Fiscal Note-LAW.pdf HJUD 3/27/2015 1:00:00 PM
HB 106
HB106 Sectional Analysis - CSHB106(STA).pdf HJUD 3/27/2015 1:00:00 PM
HB 106
HB106 Sponsor Statement.pdf HJUD 3/27/2015 1:00:00 PM
HB 106
HB106 Supporting Document - Murkowksi Letter.pdf HJUD 3/27/2015 1:00:00 PM
HB 106
HB106 ver W.PDF HJUD 3/27/2015 1:00:00 PM
HB 106
CS HB 75 Version V.pdf HJUD 3/27/2015 1:00:00 PM
HB 75